Chris 0:10

If you've always had the feeling that you know you need to be doing something with LinkedIn but just haven't figured out how to get started, this is the episode for you. We have a special guest, a LinkedIn expert, got so much value to offer in terms of how to start to engage with LinkedIn, whether you are a Gen Z and still a student or just entering the workforce, or whether you're older and a mid-career professional and want some tips in terms of how to make more use of LinkedIn. The episode is split into two. We cover both those things, but I think there's advice in both sections that will benefit everyone, so stick around. Welcome to the Gen X Z Exchange. I'm Chris Perkins, Gen X parent now 50 something empty nesto.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

And I'm Lily Perkins, Gen Z Career Explorer. We swap insights on career choices, work, and life in general. So whether you're a Gen X parent trying to figure out midlife challenges, or a Gen Z young professional or student figuring out adulthood, you're in the right place.

Chris 1:11

Because you are brand new to LinkedIn pretty much. Yes. If you were to give yourself a score out of ten in terms of how confident you feel about what LinkedIn is and what you can use it for, how would you score yourself right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Probably like a four in terms of actually making use of it, I would say.

Chris 1:33

Okay. So I'll ask you again at the end and we'll see how much that changes with all of Sarah's advice. We have our first proper guest on the show, someone bringing huge expertise on LinkedIn and careers. She's been recognized by LinkedIn as a LinkedIn top voice, been a career coach running her own business for 22 years, university guest lecturer on LinkedIn for students and graduates, uh, hosts a weekly career stories live session on LinkedIn, writer of a series of workbooks for young people entering the world of work, and still finds time to run marathons and go paddleboarding. Sarah Burgess, welcome to the Gen XZ Exchange.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Thank you so much. That sounds um it just sounds like it's not me. That's really cool. Thank you.

Chris 2:20

You've got a pretty well optimised LinkedIn profile, so I can glean a lot of information from that. So in in addition to all of that marvellous stuff, tell us one thing about you that we couldn't know from reading your LinkedIn profile.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Oh, that's tricky. Um I think the thing is outside of work, most of my stuff is around kind of sport in some capacity. So I've got a triathlon booked, which I don't think I've posted about because I've done no training for it yet.

Chris 2:46

So have you done them before?

SPEAKER_02 2:48

No, first one.

Chris 2:49

Okay. So the running leg you're gonna be with. How are you feeling about the swimming and the biking?

SPEAKER_02 2:54

The thing is, I'm genuinely not bothered about the time because I just want to do it to see if I like it. So I know that I can do the distances, um, but kind of putting them all together with all the transitions, obviously that's the real unknown. So we'll see.

Chris 3:07

Yeah, they're good fun. Lily and I used to do them.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Oh, cool.

Chris 3:10

So yeah, they're fun events. Well, Sarah, we got to know each other around 2008, 2010, when I was in a sales role at Fair Place, a small outplacement career coaching firm, and you were one of the career coaches there.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

Yes.

Chris 3:25

And I think I'm right in saying that at that time your specialisation in LinkedIn came along later. How did that really come about?

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Yeah, so my background, kind of if I look back at my corporate career, I was in a learning development role and then I managed a graduate programme, and from there I moved on to managing the global e-learning platform. So I always had an interest in kind of early careers and also how to use tech to kind of develop your career, and also work for the board at the same time, which was a really interesting combination because I could kind of see from a board perspective what were they looking at from graduates, um, and also I could see what graduates were looking for. So it was quite good being that sort of middle person. So when I was then at Fair Place, I was dealing mainly with kind of financial services senior type people, um, and LinkedIn was just getting a bit more well known, I guess. Um because I had that tech background, I just started getting interested in it. But I would say probably at that time I mostly showed people how to use it, so it was kind of quite transactional. It wasn't it wasn't the tool that it is now, definitely, because people didn't really post it, it was literally a CV service um and job search tool, really, and and the um the sort of the engagement came along a bit later.

Chris 4:37

And now I think you would say you're self-proclaimed LinkedIn geek, the volume of of information you have to draw on is incredible. So it's just grown from that really ever since then.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Before I did those roles in the corporate world, I was a business analyst, so I've always just been really interested in how things work. So I'll look at LinkedIn with a new enhancement, but kind of have it with the view of okay, someone's looking for a job. Is this feature going to help them? Is it not? So I'm always kind of looking at the features and trying to figure out how that can be used in a practical kind of way. Um and there are just so many changes that you know that the app the average user couldn't possibly keep up with them. I think last year there were 270 new features so far. This year there's almost a hundred. And and LinkedIn don't actually announce these changes very often. So I'm in a group um of people in a community called Espresso Plus, where it's there's lots of LinkedIn experts in there. Um it's almost a sport, you know, trying to spot a new feature when it comes out. And I realise that makes me sound really quite geeky and sad. But yeah, it's quite cool finding a new feature, sharing it with everyone, talking about how that's going to work. So it's a really good source of information.

Chris 5:41

Cool. Well, we want to pick your brains on all of that. So we thought we'd split the episode in two. So the first half will be about starting from scratch on LinkedIn. So if you're a Gen Z, like Lily, a student or a new graduate, you know, how can you get started? And then the second half is for someone that's maybe mid-career, a Gen Xer like me, has maybe used LinkedIn a bit, had a profile for a while, but feels they need to make more of it, might find themselves in sort of job search mode. So look at what we could be doing with that and and why. But Lily, you're absolutely Sarah's ideal target audience for that first group, Gen Z, just starting out with LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

A blank canvas.

Chris 6:22

You want to jump in with everything you want to know about how to get started?

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Yeah, so I guess for me, the main things I'm thinking, I only really made my LinkedIn account kind of recently and at the minute. It's just kind of sitting there. And I think the main thing my generation would be curious to know for someone just starting out, like I say, as a blank canvas with few connections, you've never posted on it, where would be a good place for someone like me to start just getting their foot in the door?

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Okay, so what I would say is kind of get your profile built first, and ideally, if you've got the job that you want in mind, and that's really helpful. So kind of using LinkedIn to find out a bit more information about that role, maybe finding people that are in that role. Um and I know often you might not have the practical experience relating to that role, but you can use things that you've learned at college or university, have those listed as your skills. They don't have to be actual things you've done in the workplace. I think that's the main thing for that first job. So really think about stuff you've done in a voluntary capacity, anything you've done as kind of part-time work, include all of that. You know, I often have students saying, you know what? Well, I just worked in a shop, that's you know, that's nothing much, but actually that's really good grounding because you're learning how to deal with people.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:40

I would say think about those early roles and put a bit of information in there about them that just shows how you are as a person, how you deal with people, that kind of thing. So that's the first thing, kind of get the profile built with some of those keywords in with that job in mind, ideally, um, and then start to build connections. So think about obviously your you know your friends, but your parents and your parents' friends, and your friends' parents, if that makes sense. Um, because people that are already in work really like to help young people coming into the world of work, yeah, really tough at the moment. It is a really, really hard job market, so don't be afraid to connect to people and then start to think about engaging. So I don't mean posting to start with, I mean just kind of liking things, so you know the odd like here and there that just starts pushing your name out, people will start to see you coming up, um, and then longer term think about posting if you want to, but don't stress about it. I think the stats show about what 1% of people post on LinkedIn, it's a really small number of people.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

So I would have thought it was more because I feel like the people that I know my age who have started using LinkedIn, I feel like they're like me and they're kind of like lurking in the shadows, or they'll be like everyday boom, boom, boom. So if it's one percent, that's kind of crazy. Yeah, but that's interesting about what you're saying about like engaging with people even just a little bit or um starting to form connections, because I think that's another thing that I think my generation's a bit confused about is the kind of LinkedIn etiquette, because obviously we have all our own standards and rules about if you follow someone on Instagram that you don't know very well, is that a bit weird? Um same for Facebook or Snapchat or whatever. So the etiquette's obviously a bit different in that way, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

I think so, yeah. And I I think you can, you know, you can start by following people if you'd rather not connect to them, because that's obviously much more passive. That person will probably see that you're following them and they'll probably be quite flattered. So that's fine. So I would say to people, you know, if if it's people that you think, oh, they're not going to connect with me or I feel awkward about connecting, then follow them and they may well send you a connection request back. So yeah, I would kind of start that way. But you know, generally I think people do like to help people, so yeah, I would just send a message to say, you know, um, you know, I'm looking for social media work and I can see that you're really successful, would you mind connecting? Because I'm just trying to build up my network, that kind of thing. So trying to give a bit of a reason as to why you're connecting is helpful.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Okay, cool. Yeah, so then they're not just going, who's this random person is I feel like people do on Instagram and TikTok and stuff. Yeah.

Chris 10:17

I was just gonna jump in there with something, Lily. Sarah, do you remember when TikTok was getting shut down in the States and there seemed to be a bit of a migration of TikTokers to LinkedIn? And I think you could you could tell the difference, you know, just in terms of the style, a lot of video content. And I think that kind of stuff is still acceptable to some extent, isn't it? It's not necessarily TikTok dances, but people are posting really self-generated content about all sorts of aspects of their lives, and we're not quite going to Facebook territory, but it doesn't have to all be work-related, does it?

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Definitely not. And I I find any post of mine that has got a personal element to it gets way more engagement than uh you know, than a LinkedIn tip, for instance, which I think you know that's more helpful, surely. But you know, yesterday I posted about um going in and running a session for a uh a six form, and that's had quite a good engagement compared to the LinkedIn tip that I shared on Monday that was really useful stuff. So I think people like to relate to things. And what I find is even the stuff, you know, like mentioned in the LinkedIn tip, even though it hasn't got that much engagement visibly, I do get people referencing it in conversation or sending me a message to saying that's really helpful because lots of people just are reluctant to do anything on LinkedIn, they are generally just lurking. Maybe they're worried that their employer is going to see them like in a job search tip and think that means they're looking for a job, so they're they're worried about that. So there's all sorts of reasons for not people not engaging, but yeah, the slightly more personal stuff does seem to get more engagement because people can relate to you. Yeah.

Chris 11:48

Yeah. And that's maybe a bit different to Instagram, Lily, in terms of it's not all about the the likes and and the instant reactions, you know, people will still see the content.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

I think it's true as well, because I remember we were talking about your little like unboxing video, and you said that one did really well, and that was a bit more of showing your personality instead of talking directly about like your coaching and stuff like that. It's probably nice to have a bit of a little bit of a mix. Definitely, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

And I think knowing where your boundaries are as well. So somebody, uh one of my contacts in America actually, Annette, she she asked me a question once was what's your view on the three P's? And I'm like, What do you mean? So she said she always splits her posts into professional, personal, and private. Um, you know, what are you prepared to share? And I thought actually that's quite a good mix because professional, yes, that's LinkedIn stuff. Personal, yes, that might be about um, you know, sometimes I write about my kids um and their kind of struggles through getting work, that kind of thing. So that's quite personal. I always get their permission, obviously. But then there's other stuff that's private that I wouldn't ever share. Um, but some people do share that really private stuff, you know, kind of traumas they've been through and for a reason they want to share it. Maybe that is part of their recovery, or maybe they want to kind of relate to other people. But I think if you have your own kind of boundaries, I think that's really helpful.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

The three Ps that's definitely something people could take forward onto all kind of social media platforms, I think. But I think especially for LinkedIn where you have employers looking at your stuff, it's good to have boundaries. Like you said, you mentioned it's not necessary to be on there every single day straight away. But if I did want to start posting and maybe getting my stuff out there, where would be a good place to start? Kind of the stuff you were talking about with part-time work or volunteering, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Yeah, exactly. And I think it's about what you're comfortable with. So it could be, you know, for instance, yesterday when I did this talk at a college, one of the students could say, I went to a LinkedIn talk yesterday. So it could be quite factual, that kind of stuff. And often that's what people are comfortable with talking about things that are factual. Talking about the volunteering, that's a really good one because that kind of links again back to things that you're passionate about that can relate to work. I think it's what you feel comfortable with. So I had um someone on my career stories live a couple of months ago called Sophie Broom. So she's in her second job now, actually, um, in a marketing role, and she almost uses LinkedIn a bit like a diary, and it's it's really good. She's really authentic. Um, she talks about the struggles of finding a job, how many interviews she went through, she's had to relocate for work. So she kind of documents it. It is almost like a diary. I really and I really like that. It it feels genuinely authentic. And lots of people are relating to her. She's she's just got just over 2,000 followers now, and she's really pleased with that. Um, and you know, she she talks that she loves her LinkedIn community. And you know, when I I got in touch with her because I just came across her post, I can't even remember how I came across it. Asked if she'd come on Career Stories, and she was she just wrote this post saying, I can't believe that I'm now gonna be on this podcast just because I've posted some personal stuff on LinkedIn. But I think it just opens up doors for you.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Yeah, and I think that's quite nice. That sounds like maybe a kind of a different format and tone from what I'm used to seeing, because that's another thing I was gonna ask you about was the tone to be used, because at the minute most of my connections would be other people from uni, other people kind of my age, and I've noticed it's all like when you write your CV for the first time, Dad, you'll remember helping me with mine, and it's very much like there's a certain style you write it in. And I was kind of wondering if that if there was some kind of rule as well about tone but or format.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

I think you need to find what you're comfortable with, almost mind that employees will be looking, so I I wouldn't do anything too outrageous, too crazy, yeah. But you know, going back to Sophie again, she obviously she wanted to work in marketing, so what better way to show that you're good at marketing than building up a good following and actually sharing genuine stuff? So that's worked really well for her. So yeah, I I think find your style, and that's why I say engage with other people first, because you can just kind of get a bit more confident in using it and engaging people's content, starting to write longer comments, and then what will happen then is you will maybe be prompted by LinkedIn. Why don't you make this into your own post? So your comment could then turn into a post of your own and just see how that goes down. Um, and you know, just things like this. I mean, you could maybe take some of these questions that you've asked me and turn those into a post, you know. As I've been going through preparing, that's what I'm thinking. Actually, these questions are great. I don't often get questions in advance. I've got like 10 posts there that I could just now use. So it's really helpful to be able to repurpose content in that way.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Yeah, I think it would be good to share some of these, especially for the people in my friend group who are also like me and kind of watching everyone else from the sidelines.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

And how to best use the alumni tab on your university's page. I didn't even know my uni had an alumni tab.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Assuming the university has put that has set up their page properly, which is a bit of a problem. So university and education places need to set up their page as an education provider rather than a company, as some have got themselves set up as company, so it doesn't work then. But if they've got it set up as an education provider, what you'll see when you go onto their page is an alumni tab. If you click on that, basically you see everybody who's linked themselves to that university. So um from I mean, they've got the search dates from 1900 to now, so obviously that's quite quite comprehensive. Yes, okay. Um, but you can you can search that, and uh the the alumni's are so powerful because people generally really like to help people when they've been to the same university. So, what I always say to people is if you go to that alumni tab and let's say you want to work as social media, or if you just type in social media as a keyword, run a search, that will then list everybody in that alumni group that has social media somewhere on their profile. Then you could filter that by location or by year or you know, whatever you want to. And then you've just got a ready-made group of people you can then message and just say.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

That's great. I did, as I just said, I didn't have a Scooby, that was a thing. Yeah, so I need to have a wee look at that. Knowing my uni, it'll all be shambolic and they want to set it up properly.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

But have a look, and if they haven't, let me know and I can I can send you instructions on what you need to get.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

Oh, that would be fair. Thank you. I probably will have to do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

But I mean, a really good example is that I had a client who she was new, she wanted to relocate to Canada because her partner's job was moving out there. So she looked at this target organization and it always shows you if you've got connections, so either first degree connections or someone that went to the same uni. This guy went to your uni, she said, Oh, yeah, but he graduated 30 years ago. I went, doesn't matter, just message him. The worst that can happen is he ignores you. But if you just you're moving to Canada, you went to the same uni, has he got any tips on you know moving and you know that you know you really like the sound of this job? He replied they had a chat, he did a referral programme, she got the job. You know, you still it really does happen by using that kind of stuff. If you can build up the courage to message someone, you never know what's going to come of it.

Chris 18:58

I still use it for connections, so I'll go onto the alumni page for Sterling University and look for people in HR or marketing and ping them a message and just say, Hey, it's a fellow Sterling graduate building my network in HR marketing and shall we connect? And most people do, and I think just having that small connection, something in common, is kind of a reason to connect. And yeah, alumni is really useful.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

So just for people like me, Hercules, where would you find that page? Is that just on your university portal?

SPEAKER_02 19:26

No, on LinkedIn. So if you go to the LinkedIn page for your university, yeah, it's got like uh about posts, jobs, and then there's an alumni tab, and you just click on that.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Amazing. Cool.

Chris 19:39

This is a short break to say thank you to everyone that has supported our show over the first few weeks. If you've left us a five-star rating, we really appreciate it. And a special thank you if you've written us a review. So in the UK, that's Lucy Blink, Maureen and Mike B, PM Tenant1611, Auntie Social 101, and Laird Dutch. And in the US, thank you to Diana Hugh, Mad Jalapeno, and Celeste A. Cole. We really appreciate all your feedback and we've been hugely encouraged by it. If you'd like to hear your name on the show, please go ahead and leave us a review and you'll hear it in a future episode. Now, back to the show.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Coming on to your sessions for SMART students, mention how LinkedIn can help with your study as well. So, what's one thing to do in that area?

SPEAKER_02 20:34

So I would say if you're if you're doing a degree in whatever topic, so so let's say my son, so he was studying music. So his final project was to release like an EP and put on a show. Um, but he actually did loads of research and interview people and all of that kind of stuff. So we did then is we we just ran a search on LinkedIn. So in that search bar at the top, it's not just for finding people, it's for finding content as well. So we typed in music production and punk and then click return, and then loads of posts came up that were to do with punk music and producing that. So that then gave him lots of reference material that you could put into his kind of essay, um, you know, different ideas, and it's all really up-to-date information. So you're just getting kind of access to industry information that is right up to date, really relevant, that you can then reference in all of your work. And similarly, he found people on there that he then interviewed as part of his project. So he he got in touch with them, arranged Zoom calls. It definitely wasn't easy for him. He found it really difficult to kind of approach people. But after he done and then ran those sessions, um, and he ended up with a you know, like a high merit at the end, which he definitely wasn't expecting because he had to use LinkedIn really well with my guidance, obviously, to do that. So powerful if you know what to look for.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

And that's really good that he had your guidance, like you say, because those skills that he would have gained, especially doing something kind of out of his comfort zone like that, if he was having to interview people and chase people up. And then also just the research side of it for getting his references and stuff. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Yeah. Because you will start to stand out. And you know, if you can start to build connections in that industry whilst you're studying, you, you know, you you might um end up having a good referral for job opportunities later on.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

I know we've spoken about the stads, but obviously I'd love to hear Sarah's perspective because there's been a massive spike in AI usage on LinkedIn. And I think for people who are new to LinkedIn, and then I guess all of us are kind of new to AI as well, is there kind of an acceptable amount of AI that's to be used? How likely are employers to pick up on the fact that you've maybe written something with AI? What are the kind of guidelines for using AI in a way that's helpful and not going to be kind of holding you back?

SPEAKER_02 22:56

So there are loads of elements of LinkedIn that that LinkedIn themselves are introducing in terms of AI. So things like writing posts it will give you prompts up now most of them are premium features so you would need to pay for them. My view is that I don't think that the AI on the post is that great. I prefer to write my own posts and I I think it would be better if people did write their own posts. However, using a bit of AI to kind of help, you know, what are the key themes I should be thinking about that kind of thing. So I would say use it to kind of help you with your thinking if that's what you want to do and then write it yourself. But I think in terms of things like the applying for jobs, again one of the really good premium features is called job match and what that does now is when you click on a job that you're interested in it will show you what your job match is so from low to high. And then you can click on show me job match and what that does then is it goes away it compares your profile to the job and it shows you where you're missing out things. So that then gives you the chance to go back in and amend your profile assuming you have got those skills obviously I think that's really good use. So I would definitely it's really useful um but as I said that is a premium feature so that is there. I mean I guess you could do that outside if you really wanted to you could put the digital description and your profile into ChatGPT or something and ask that to compare.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Thanks having it built in so yeah I saw actually Dad uh tagged me in your post about your workbooks and they looked really great. So I was wondering if you wanted to maybe share a little bit more with us about them.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

It kind of all stemmed from my own kids so they're 23 and 19 now and they both didn't necessarily struggle in education but didn't want to follow typical routes I guess. So there's lots of other kids that I knew that were really struggling about what to do next um just kind of feeling stuck. So I just had this idea of writing a workbook for students about those kind of key education points when they're feeling stuck and what they can do to just help themselves realise everything is going to be okay and actually what happens with exam results you know it's not the end of the world if you don't get the marks that you're hoping for there's always other options. So that's the idea is they're quite reassuring. So I've got three that I've had edited now so 16 and stuck, 18 and stuck and then out of uni and stuck. And then kind of alongside that I met a young artist who was like a family friend who was going off to uni um but she did graphic uh like comic graphic work and I was also involved in a writing group where we had a like a micro story competition we had to write a story of 300 characters 300 words sorry so I wrote this story about a 16 year old that didn't know what to do next which seemed to resonate with quite a lot of people so parents saying I recognise my child or students saying yeah that's me. And then I got Ellie I asked Ellie if she would kind of put it into a karmic format for me which she did and she's done the same for the other two stories now that I've got um I just think it works really well because I'm getting a young person's viewpoint on my story and getting her interpretation of it in the pictures that she's drawing and hopefully that means that it's quite relatable. So I guess that's like the hook at the beginning of the book that goes through the story. And then it just works through a number of exercises to help people identify things they've liked over their life, things they haven't liked um what what kind of skills they've got so quite practical skills. The idea is that there'll be hard copies so that people are physically writing them rather than online. Yeah so that that's the books really so they're all edited and I'm my next job is to look for publishing options.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Amazing yeah because the the we bit that I saw on LinkedIn I thought the drawings like you say it did really depict it really well I like that you could get a sense of all the anxiety because that was very relatable I think in a couple years I'm gonna have to be using that uh out of uni one. Oh yeah so what was that we're gonna do the is it the smart students?

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Yeah so I do uh yeah LinkedIn for smart student session so um either one-to-one or in groups or um I've just got released a digital course actually as well. So um and what this does is it just talks you through your profile and all of the key fields and why they're important. And again those kind of tips again about things like using the alumni, you know finding people that are doing the job you want to do all of that kind of stuff.

Chris 27:19

And I know you do parent consultations as well Sarah if parents want to guide their kids on career choices. If if people want more details on all of these things, where can they go to find out more?

SPEAKER_02 27:29

Best place is my LinkedIn page but otherwise my website which um I guess we can put a links on we'll put those in the show notes yeah yeah terrific.

Chris 27:37

Such good advice I think even for people sort of in the middle of their career what you've covered still applies in in many instances in terms of um how to make the most out of LinkedIn. If we fast forward 20 years to someone who's got say a CV, some work experience to show and they probably set up a LinkedIn profile at some point but haven't really used it, done anything with it. And now they're maybe a bit worried about job security or they've maybe had some bad news and been told about a a layoff and they find themselves back in the job market having to make sense of LinkedIn all of a sudden. What would you say to them are the essential things to get them started with its job search capabilities?

SPEAKER_02 28:18

So I I think um as I said about the the students is having that have that next job in mind. So what what is it that you're looking for next um making sure your profile is optimised for that. Yeah kind of keywords sentences that kind of thing but but then outside of the profile I'd say the network is so important. The job market is definitely harder than I've ever seen it in all the time I've been doing this work. So it's really important to keep in touch with people tell them what you're looking for as I keep saying people really generally do like to help people so if you let people know what it is you're looking for you know not directly asking them for a job but you know if you see something like this would you mind letting me know that kind of thing and just yeah being kind of brave I guess with asking for introductions to people you really don't know where it's going to end up. I'm I'm definitely trying to do that a bit more myself because I kind of thought you know I always tell people this but actually do I do it myself and I I have started doing it and it's it's coming up with some really good results actually because I think people just have a view of you in their mind that you're all happy and secure but actually if you tell them this is how I want to progress, this is what I'm looking for then then they're going to help.

Chris 29:27

Yeah and it is a networking platform isn't it so people are on there sort of expecting to make connections but equally I think expecting to receive them and yeah I've been really encouraged with connections I've made people I I wouldn't have thought would be interested in connecting with me and and they do not everyone does but you keep connecting liking commenting on people's posts and and build those relationships.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Exactly and I remember a few years ago Chris I think you you asked me for something and I was like oh maybe you should talk to my aunt because she's relatively that was after a layoff yeah yeah yeah yeah and had a great conversation and have been connected ever since yeah I know with uh some of your coaching work you you talk about people saying well I just can't see the point like why bother what do you say to them to help them see the value in and being more active on LinkedIn yeah I think that is definitely the most common thing that I have that people say I don't like social media I don't have a Facebook account I don't want to share what I've eaten for breakfast I can't see the point um so I would say almost every client I work with says that so I always say don't worry about posting um you know you don't have to post but find content that's relevant to your expertise so I don't know maybe maybe two or three things that are really relevant to you use that search bar to find those posts that are generally going to be people outside of your network and then just start liking those things. So you know if it's to do with say sustainability run a search for that like the odd post because that means then every time your name is going to pop up in people's news feed so roughly five percent of your connections will see that you've liked something so they'll just see your name starting to pop up and if they look at what you've liked then it they'll see that it's linked to you. So they're just building up that picture of you you're kind of creating your brand I guess in a sense because you're always being consistent with what it is you're liking. And that will then mean that people start looking at your profile because they'll think oh why is that person liking that thing have a look at their profile the author might look at your profile. So LinkedIn will really like that because you've got people outside of your first degree connections looking at your profile. So that in turn helps you get found easier by recruiters or headhunters. So the more active you can be the more likely you are to be found by people running searches. And then once you feel comfortable doing that then move on to commenting so you know just you know short comments mean ideally if they can be 10 words or more because LinkedIn will kind of think you're trying to start a conversation hopefully the author will respond to you or at least like your comment but again you're just starting to show your expertise in a bit more depth I guess then and as you get more confident you could write longer you could you know you could be controversial if you want to again it depends on what you're happy with doing and then eventually you might then think oh I I can write a post on this topic now because it kind of builds that confidence up and then I always say congratulate people you've got new roles share posts for people looking for work because it's really kind um and also you never know where they're going to end up you know they might end up somewhere and suddenly a vacancy comes up that they and then they remember you. So I would say that's that's the point.

Chris 32:39

Absolutely that is such a great explanation as to why you should engage for all of those reasons. And I know when I've looked at some of my stats I think about maybe 6065% of my profile views come from commenting not posting just by just by being out there and people are interested in maybe what you have to say or they wonder you know why you might be responding to someone else's post but it gets you that that visibility.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

Exactly and you're getting visibility from people that wouldn't normally come across you because some of the author's contacts are going to see your comment so then they're gonna be thinking oh who's this person should I connect them so you're just widening your reach by doing that. Yeah terrific.

Chris 33:20

Right two slightly controversial topics the first the green open to work banner. I know you're an advocate for it but I think there's a popular conception misconception that if you use it it makes you look desperate and that recruiters are automatically going to disregard you. What's your take on it?

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Yeah I mean I completely disagree with recruiters going to disregard you. Yeah so so that there's two two ways of using open to work. So absolutely definitely even if you're really happy in your work have open to work set up for recruiters only which means nobody else can see it.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Only people that have LinkedIn recruiter can see this and have it set up with your dream job. So you know if you're happy in your work and you're not looking but you know have it set up because what happens when recruits or heads are running headhunters are running searches they'll put in the job title they're looking for and the location all of the skills that kind of thing and then quite often they will tick the button the button that says show me people who are open to work and I think the stats show something like 70% of headhunters use that button. So if you haven't got open to work set up you're not going to be found. Okay. If they then go along and run run a wider search of the LinkedIn whole LinkedIn database which they they can easily do then you might get picked up but having that open to work set up for recruiters only just widens your chance of getting found by headhunters. You can have up to five job titles in there you can specify five locations you can specify whether you want to be hybrid remote or office based so yeah and and they also put in measures that mean that recruiters in your own company can't see that you're open to work. So say you work for Google Google recruiters wouldn't be able to see you had open to work set up because they kind of work on that whole email address thing.

Chris 35:10

Right. So you know you can be relatively secure that provides some reassurance for people they're not really advertising the fact that they're in the job market. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Yeah and then the green banner so obviously what that does is puts a green banner on your photo it then shows on the bottom of your contact card to the bit at the top of your profile it shows what you're looking for and people can then click on that for more information. So I I do understand people saying it makes them feel a bit desperate but I think you know redundancy if if that's the reason that people don't want to put it up but redundancy is so common now it's like a it's it's a way of life and like I keep saying people like to help. So if they see that green banner I think that they're really likely to want to try to help you. The the other benefit of doing this is that when you've put that green banner on it will come up with a prompt um to write a post on LinkedIn which has got some pre-formatted text to say you're open to work. And then you can kind of you can delete that text or you can you know amend it or whatever. But that they report that that actual post then goes into the news feed of all of your connections and followers so that's a massive reach. Normally a post only gets five percent roughly of your network so this post will get a wider reach than a normal post. Obviously your contact needs to be you know looking at LinkedIn to be able to see it. But you generally find people that do use that post get quite a lot of engagement on that post. Lots of people like it lots of people share it lots of people say you know this is the best buzz I've ever worked with or whatever because people like to help.

Chris 36:39

Yeah that is something I never knew.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

That's really handy for grads and stuff as well I think and I've I find it funny that people are saying it it would make you look desperate because it says open to work it hardly says like please give me a so that's really really interesting because I would never have known that otherwise and that's why I say build up your connections first because if a bigger network then obviously more people are going to see it. So I would build up your connections then send out that note I can see the flow chart of all my things that I'm gonna do forming. So that is great.

Chris 37:15

And just on uh how recruiters use LinkedIn Sarah I know you know a lot of people are in the job market at the moment because of layoffs and all sorts of other things and and I know of a a couple of friends who've been looking for quite a while because it is a really tough market. And I've heard people talk about whether you should put a a current role you know if you finished your last employed role several months ago then there seems to be some kind of advantage if you kind of create a bit of a fictional role you know for yourself as you know open open to work but you put the job titles in that you're seeking and that somehow helps with recruiters is that right?

SPEAKER_02 37:51

Yeah so again the way that the recruiters and headhunters run their searches is they will often click the button that says shamey people currently in this role so obviously if you're not in a role you're not then going to get found. So what the advice is from the headhunters that I speak to regularly is to set up another experience section. So not a career break but set up a career experience and in the job title you have have 120 characters. So if you're looking for maybe two or three different possible roles you could put all of those job titles in there just kind of separate them all with commas or whatever you want to separate them. And then in the employer if you just write seek your next opportunity something like that and then but then importantly in the description area I would add a bit of text that just says currently seeking my next role here are my most recent achievements or something like that and just put in a bit of text there because that experience section is so important for headhunters. When they see your profile in LinkedIn recruiter it's a bit different to how it is on the LinkedIn screen so they'll just see your name in your your name your photo your headline one line of the about section but then they'll see all of your experience for the last three roles. Right. So if you created a fictional role you want to make the most of that description area and kind of optimise it with those sentences that I was talking about earlier.

Chris 39:11

That is such a great insight in terms of if you're not doing that you're potentially invisible to a lot of recruiters who are looking for people currently doing the job that you're you're seeking. Brilliant. And then the second kind of controversial topic which we touched on briefly earlier is LinkedIn premium. Obviously LinkedIn want people to subscribe they do particularly if if you are between jobs and you know maybe having to keep an eye on finances it's an additional cost. If you're a student you know like Lily and and her friends it's an additional cost. Yeah. What do you think is worth it and at what level for um going for any of the premium services?

SPEAKER_02 39:44

Yeah so the problem the problem with it now is what is happening is all the really good features are premium features. So I understand from a business point of view that's how LinkedIn are kind of making their money. It is frustrating when it's job seekers that are having to pay for premium so what I would say is if you haven't taken out premium before then take out the free trial you get 30 days for free. You do have to put in your card details but they generally are pretty good at telling you when the amount's going to come out so you can cancel it. I would say cancel it when you get to the end of 30 days if you do intend to continue it because often you'll get an offer that says maybe you can have two months at half price something like that. So definitely do that. Obviously there's no guarantee but that seems to be what happens so yeah I think at any level really because there there are things in there like the job marriage that I've talked about um like on company pages you can see insights information about the company so that gives you kind of their growth over the last two years how long people typically stay there recent hires that kind of information so that that's available and there's also this thing called actively hiring within premium that will just show you if so if you run a search for say social media and people and then people that are actively hiring that will give you a list of everyone that's actively hiring.

SPEAKER_03 41:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

And then then you can see the roles that they're advertising for a really good filter. Yeah so it's a really good filter. Those roles might not be in the job search so you're kind of getting access there to a bit more information.

Chris 41:18

Superb and again those are the things that could make the difference in terms of you being kind of first in to see new roles coming up or just the insights that you can gather from those additional features and potentially if you are lucky enough to get an offer you could have three months worth of LinkedIn premium at at least a reduced rate and that could go a good way to sort of filling the the gap perhaps between roles.

SPEAKER_02 41:42

Yeah great advice thank you and just finally is there anything that we haven't already talked about perhaps some of the less well known features that you think are really good for people to know about up to recently I would have said interview prep because what happened there is you could you you got a number of interview questions you record yourself and then you get AI feedback but that's gone. I've heard from someone inside LinkedIn that they're working on something better so that should be back later in the year. So fingers crossed that happens. And and I guess things like just the ability that you can go in and and track someone's entire career path I think is really quite amazing. So you know if you've got an aspiration to be like a film director or something you can go in find those people and then see how they've got there and it just gives you ideas. So I think that kind of practical stuff I think is really really useful.

Chris 42:33

That has been so amazing thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

So many useful things that will work for both generations I think yeah and I feel like that I definitely feel a lot less I think intimidated by it so that's maybe given me a little kick up the bum because now I don't have the excuse of not knowing anything and being clueless.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:56

But I don't actually feel quite motivated now to get on there and backtrack a little bit and like figure out what we've done wearing women. So yeah thank you very much for that because before I was kind of like I say just lurking I don't want to be a lurker anymore. And you've got time on your side Lily you know two years to go to start to build that audience to understand the features you know think about what can I from all my pals that are graduating at the minute they've kind of they've kind of started obviously we're all the same age we've all started at the same age but because I've got the benefit of having gone back to do an extra two years I'm kind of thinking okay so if I really build my profile up and get everything looking nice and then maybe I try and get myself three months of premium at a discounted rate when I graduate.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Exactly yeah and and you know building those connections now is so useful um yeah and just connecting to you know the the right people I guess so one of my friend's sons had been like been let down about a job really close To his due date to start. Um, and I wrote a post about him and my son at the same time, and that had so many impressions, it was ridiculous. But so many people are offering help, and I think if you can build a reputation as someone that's kind of giving information, then people will definitely pay you back, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

And I think especially the stuff so for building connections, I didn't have a scooby about the alumni thing as well, but then also, like you said, just kind of being personal in some of your posts and not being afraid to to reach out to people because it is quite nice that I feel reassured that people do want to help because like all the examples you've given us today, people are generally quite keen to say I've I know someone or get in touch with so and so. So that's good. I feel reassured, I feel ready to go, I'm excited. Fantastic.

Chris 44:48

I think it is about relationship building, isn't it, Sarah? That it's not you don't enter into this in terms of collecting connections to hit some number. That's a bit of a vanity metric, as they say. It's about building relationships with people, so giving your expertise, offering to help where you can, and that kind of comes back to you when you need to tap into that goodwill with other people.

SPEAKER_02 45:10

Exactly.

Chris 45:11

So if people would like to follow up with you and learn more, obviously you're on LinkedIn and we'll have a note uh a link to that in the show notes along with your website. I thought where else can people find out uh a bit more about you and what you're doing if there's anything that uh they're interested in?

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Um so I am in the process of getting kind of Instagram, Facebook, and eventually TikTok set up, which is really scary. Um but I know lots of students are on TikTok, therefore I need to. Yeah. So um, and I'm kind of going with the branding of Anstuck for those. Um kind of relating to the books, really. So as I said, I've got the first three done. There'll be one more for some kind of me people that are mid-20s that are maybe being drifting a bit um and don't know what to do next. So yeah, that's the plan. Um, but in the meantime, yeah, yeah, website, email, or um LinkedIn. Brilliant. Nice.

Chris 46:05

So just to uh wrap up, Lily, you scored yourself a four out of ten at the beginning of the conversation in terms of kind of readiness to be on LinkedIn. What would you score yourself now?

SPEAKER_01 46:17

I'm feeling pretty strong. I'm not gonna give myself full points because there's an element of I need to go on there and not have it. I'm gonna open it up and then be scared again. No, I think I'm I think I would give myself probably don't quote me on it in case I get on there and you guys see my post in the rubbish, but maybe I think I'm gonna be at least an eight, I think. But I think I could possibly bump it up higher once I get on there.

Chris 46:44

So that's a hundred percent improvement in the last sixty minutes. I know that's amazing, Sarah. You could you can take that as a testimonial uh from from Lily of your at least a hundred.

SPEAKER_01 46:54

So maybe I'm gonna get on there and like it'll be even better. But if you ever want me to return the favour with any TikTok guidance or anything, let me know. Oh, that'll be amazing.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Because I definitely spend far too much uh time on that app. So cool, thank you.

Chris 47:10

Sarah, it's been so good to reconnect. So thanks for uh coming on and for um giving us the benefit of all of your expertise. Really, really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Yeah, thanks so much. That was a lovely, lovely chat, very informative. Cool, thank you.

Chris 47:23

So, Lily, we've just wrapped up our interviews with Sarah. What would you say has been most useful on everything we've discussed in terms of how ready you feel to start using LinkedIn more?

SPEAKER_01 47:35

I feel like prior to chatting with Sarah, I definitely felt a little bit intimidated by LinkedIn. You know, I've grown up with social media, I understand how to work LinkedIn, so to speak. But I think in terms of the etiquette, the stuff I should be posting on there, building up my profile, it's been really helpful for just getting a better understanding of how to get my foot in the door. But then also her knowledge of the features that were on there and how relevant and useful they would be to someone like me, a student, or someone just leaving uni, maybe. There was stuff that she gave me some advice on that I had no clue even existed. So yeah, I'm actually feeling a lot more confident. I'm feeling pretty motivated now to get on there and actually get it looking half decent, hopefully.

Chris 48:26

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you will. Same for me. You know, I I have been using LinkedIn much more intentionally for the last six months, and I learned a ton of stuff that I didn't know in terms of what it can do and how you can set things up to really optimise it for whatever your goals and objectives are. It is a great platform and clearly it's changing all the time. You know, the number of new features she talked about, it's a lot to keep on top of, probably too much for individuals like us. But when you are connected to people like Sarah and you're following what she's posting, you've got a fantastic resource there in terms of keeping up to date and making the most of it. So yeah, it was really, really useful.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

It was great. I'm really excited to share this episode with all of my friends who are looking for no jobs, looking for a job.

Chris 49:13

Yeah, I think a lot of them would really benefit, which is great.

SPEAKER_01 49:16

Yeah. Tune in for our next episode because hopefully all the tips and advice you've gained from this one have helped you clear yourself up on LinkedIn and you've maybe landed some job interviews. Uh, that's what our next episode is going to be talking about. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Gen XE Exchange.