Chris 0:06

Over the last hundred years, we've added roughly 30 years to the average human lifespan. That's one of the greatest achievements in human history. But here's the question, have we added 30 healthy years? Because more and more of us are living longer. But we're also spending more years living with chronic illness, frailty, and dependency. In this episode, we're talking about longevity, health spans, and what Gen X and Gen Z should be doing now if they want to stay healthy, active and independent for as long as possible. Welcome to the Gen XD Exchange. I'm Chris Perkins, Gen X parent now 50 something empty nest up.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

And I'm Lily Perkins, Gen Z Career Explorer. We swap insights on career choices, work, and life in general.

Chris 0:53

So whether you're a Gen X parent trying to figure out midlife challenges.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Or a Gen Z young professional or student figuring out adulthood, you're in the right place.

Chris 1:02

That advance in life expectancy is quite remarkable, I think, Lily. I'm 56 now. If I'd been born a hundred years ago in 1926, I'd probably be dead by this age because I only would have expected to live until 55 or 60. So the most amazing thing about medical science is that it's done an incredible job of preventing people dying young.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah.

Chris 1:29

But here's a question for you. You are highly likely to live into your 90s and may well live to a hundred.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Yeah.

Chris 1:39

Would you rather live to a hundred and spend the last 15 to 20 years unable to do the things you enjoy or live to ninety and remain active pretty much up to the end?

Lily 1:51

I feel like for most people I imagine it's probably the same for the second option, living to ninety and getting to be able to still do the things that I love and enjoy, hopefully up until the end. I think being in a home or being immobile or bedbound or whatever if I was a hundred years old and just kind of lying there and having nothing to do wouldn't really be the best uh situation for anyone. So I think it's the same for you.

Chris 2:20

Yeah. I would go with the healthy option, live to 90 and have lots of fun doing so rather than another ten years of not much quality of life. Yeah, agree. And the idea for this came about from the wellness episode we did last time around, because obviously that can have some positive benefit, but perhaps if you follow all of that advice, it's not necessarily the best thing for being as healthy as possible. And what we're talking about is the difference between lifespan and health span. So not just how long you can survive till, but how long can you live well and stay healthy and active? And I know you might be thinking at 23, why should I care? But if you think you are probably gonna live into your 90s, does it change the way you think about your career, your health or money and relationships, you know, that you're gonna live that long?

Lily 3:16

Yeah, definitely. I think part of me is still like, oh, I'm 23, I've got loads of time to figure everything out. But particularly from the health side of things, when you're watching your grandparents age. Even you and mum, you're in no you're in no way old. Uh so they'll take offense. But when you are maybe lifting something and your back goes, or mum's maybe a bit more tired than she has been in the past, things like that. Uh it does make me want to consider the steps that I'm taking just now to try and build up a little bit of health and wellness, like especially for women knowing that my bone density is gonna decrease and I need to incorporate strength training and things like that into my routine. So it does cross my mind, but I think there's still a little bit of pushback going, I'm in my early 20s, I'll be absolutely fine. This is a problem for future me, which I kind of need to break down a little bit.

Chris 4:10

Yeah, I've got loads of time. Yeah, I I thought that so I could maybe give you uh uh some insight into what shifted my perspective. And and really a lot of it was to do with my parents, you know, your grandparents, grandma, and the difficulties she's had over the last 18 months with a couple of falls. Yeah. She's 83 now and fortunately has avoided any serious illnesses up to now, but she's on various medications to manage a variety of things and she doesn't like having to take all of those pills. But there's no reason that medication can't continue to keep us healthy for many years to come. I think her biggest risk to life is another fall where she bangs her head or breaks some bones. And I think her increased risk of falling can be traced back to things she did or didn't do in her 50s, like the age I am now. And for you and all your Gen Z pals, you've got a lot longer to sort some of this stuff out, and no doubt medical science is going to continue to make advances, but how healthy you will be in your 50s and then in your 90s is largely a function of the habits and attitudes you develop now and take into your your 30s. And out of curiosity, have you ever really given much thought to how healthy you want to be in old age?

Lily 5:29

I think actually, similarly with grandma's situation, it does give you obviously you have a lot of like I feel for her and what she does, she's been basically in and out of hospital constantly, and she doesn't like taking her medication, like you said. She feels like she's got so much of it. So I think that for me has got me thinking about, like I mentioned earlier on, with my bone density and avoiding falls and still being relatively mobile in my old age. So I've been thinking about that a little bit more recently, and then obviously with grandad and his dementia, with grandpa and his heart issues, uh, it does kind of make you think these are all things that are obviously in my genetic buildup. So should I be thinking about my diet just now? So yeah, in short, yes, I think the past few years have made me a little bit less in this bubble of like I'm invincible and I'm gonna live forever, and I've got loads of time to sort everything out.

Chris 6:23

Which is what you think in your 20s, and yeah, you know, you've seen your grandparents decline as they've got older, but there's something about it being your your parents, you know. So I'm watching my my parents. Your parents so far, I think, are pretty healthy. You haven't watched us get old and frail yet. I think we still look like fairly healthy people.

Lily 6:45

Yeah, you you guys do a good job of keeping pretty fit and healthy, taking all your vitamins, doing your exercises. I can't really imagine myself being old. And you and Mum don't seem old to me just now, but the thought of you guys being like properly old one day as well is quite strange to to think about.

Chris 7:06

When the burden of care may well fall to you and Charlie, I couldn't imagine really being old either. It was only seeing my parents decline and the thought that I'm getting close to that period now and I don't want to end up with the health issues and the complications that they had or or have. And you know, you should be glad that we're thinking about this stuff because otherwise it will be the two of you that are looking after us when we get past it.

Lily 7:33

Well, you know, ever since that old GP unit got turned into the fancy nursing home, and starling, I've been eyeing that up for you. I've been keeping an eye out for special offers for when you're guys these type of companies.

Chris 7:44

A two for one. You might get a two for one if we're both still around. Yeah, just move this in there. Let other people deal with it. Yeah. But if we're talking about living well for longer, a key thing I've learned is that your healthy behaviours kind of compound, like, you know, when you in invest money, so put small amounts into a pension uh as soon as you you start work, which I've encouraged you to do, and that's maybe a separate conversation we have to have. It's worth far more than if you were to start paying into it later on in your 40s. You have to pay in much more to get the same benefit, and your health is kind of the same.

Lily 8:22

Yeah. I think in response to a lot of the kind of toxic wellness stuff that I've been seeing online, there's a lot of pushback from some more healthy, balanced kind of fitness, wellness influencers saying, you know, don't take the dieting to the extreme because that'll kind of have the compound interest effect in uh the opposite in the negative direct impact. Where you're losing your bone mass and that'll come back to bite you in the bum. So basically, it's this idea of what you're choosing to do with your health now is like investing in your future self when you're in the 80s, which definitely is a quite good way to think about it.

Chris 8:58

Yeah, and and you'll enjoy the benefits of being healthy now anyway, and storing up that lifetime of healthy habits that will pay you back when you're 80, and you have the advantage of being 23. So you're in your prime, muscle mass peaks, your bone density is at its best now, and you can easily build your your fitness. So what you have to do is keep that going for as long as you can. And like we touched on in the episodes about wellness and sleep, I think the modern world is driving us to optimize the wrong things a lot of the time. If you look at all of your fitness influencers, what sort of things are they encouraging young men and women to do right now?

Lily 9:39

I mean, it's pretty much all aesthetics focused, which is the first issue because actually the point of exercising should be improving your health and making you feel better. Like for me, if I just do even a couple of workout classes a week, I'll sleep so much better, I'm less stressy because all that energy has somewhere to go. But yeah, I think a lot of it is like lifting as much as you can or doing this specific set, this specific workout for these specific results. It's like a copy and paste kind of approach, building muscle, getting lean, crossfit, high rocks is kind of the new crossfit, I think, as well. Pilates, all the very trendy stuff that you can post on Instagram to kind of like flex that you're out doing the expensive, trendy workout classes rather than actually focusing on just getting movement in.

Chris 10:29

Yeah, and I guess that aesthetic thing is about how good does it look on the outside, but could actually be doing some damage on the inside if it is the really extreme versions of those things.

Lily 10:40

Or even it's not like a super effective workout. There's been times that I've gone to these really trendy studios that everyone's talking about and I see everyone posting about, and if I've had my Apple Watch on, it'll say that I did about burnt about two calories or something, because it's mostly like lying down and doing these tiny little movements. Like it's not always the best. I would have been better just going on a walk outside and getting some fresh air, you know?

Chris 11:02

Yeah, in instead of taking selfies in the luxury gym. Exactly. Lesson learned. You know, that there's an element of wanting to get out and be healthy and active, which is which is good, but but it could be that that activity when you are young and fit could end up causing injuries, which you know, as you say, come back to to bite you in later life. Uh you're probably not going to want to be kind of pumping iron well into your 80s, but there are probably things you do want to do in old age. What sort of things do you picture yourself doing when you're in your your 80s to have an active lifestyle and good quality of life?

Lily 11:39

Well, for me, I love driving, and I think like we saw with grandma, her being able to drive, that's a big source of independence for her. And I think she wasn't able to drive, it was quite a shock to the system. For me, being able to drive and travel, go out and socialise, you know. Hopefully, I've still got some hobbies on the go, still got some different friend groups. Also, like if there's grandchildren, being able to play with grandkids, pick grandkids up, those kinds of things, getting in and out of the bathtub, being able to go to the toilet by myself, things that you really take for granted, like day-to-day, but actually it becomes much more of a struggle when you get older.

Chris 12:15

Yeah. Um and it can just be the the basics, like you know, getting up off the floor. You know, if you are playing with children or or grandchildren, getting in and out of the bath, getting up out of a chair, all of those kind of things. Yeah. And we might have robots to help us with some of that kind of thing, or autonomous cars, so we won't have to have the coordination and the alertness that we we need to drive now. But you still need to function and and be able to move. Yeah.

Lily 12:45

I mean, yeah, even if we have all the robot assistance, it would be good to be able to walk unassisted and you know, get up from a chair without going oof, like you do sometimes. You'll take a big breath and put your hands on your knees. Um, so yeah, being able to do those things, climbing stairs, carrying shopping in, um, trying to think what else, but just basically the basic essentials that we take for granted. Yeah, yeah.

Chris 13:12

To just continue to walk unaided, you know, and then to be able to go out and about. Perfectly reasonable to aim for and doing that kind of stuff in your your 80s. All of those things have become my main focus for my health and fitness now. I'm no longer interested in doing marathons or triathlons like I was in my 40s. I am training for just living well into my 80s, maybe into my 90s. And the two things that would prevent that would be serious disease or not having a reasonable amount of strength and balance.

Lily 13:46

Plus, I think given that we've spoken about things like friendship and third spaces and community spaces, I think you also need to include your mental health in that. Like you'd said to me a while ago, this is the slowest the world is going to turn from this point on. So you need to pay attention to stress, friendships, your relationships, your relationship with mum, make sure you don't piss her off, otherwise you might be getting an early grave. And then loneliness as you get older as well. Because unfortunately, that's something that people in the UK, older people in the UK, have to deal with especially. So coming back to what you said about the serious disease side of things, I've heard the four biggest serious diseases being referred to as the four horsemen. So that would include heart disease, cancer, and then dementia and other neurological diseases, so Parkinson's and um things like that, and then metabolic conditions like diabetes and obesity. So I take it you are you worried about any of those given that we have a little bit of uh family history with some of them?

Chris 14:50

Absolutely. Yeah, as you know, my biggest fear is getting some form of dementia, having seen what that did to grandad. And I've got some family history of heart disease and cancer too.

Lily 15:02

Oh great. Bengal.

Chris 15:05

Yeah, those are, you know, the biggest risks. But what I found really interesting looking into this is uh a book called Outlive by Dr. Peter Attier. He was a cancer surgeon, and his view is that modern medicine has done an incredible job of preventing what he calls fast death. If you're in a car accident or you get stabbed or you have a heart attack or get a cancer diagnosis, modern medicine's got incredibly good at keeping you alive.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Yep.

Chris 15:36

But what he became pretty obsessed with is why medicine hasn't really made any great strides in the last century or so at preventing what he calls slow death. Why do people develop heart disease or cancer? We're good at treating it when it happens, but we don't really know how to prevent these things starting in the first place. So he's been on a mission to try and figure that out, which is what the book is about. And I thought it was fascinating. And do you know what he's identified it comes down to?

Lily 16:06

Uh I can take a guess, but tell me and I'll see if I've got things right in my head.

Chris 16:11

Nutrition, exercise, sleep, and emotional health.

unknown 16:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Okay.

Chris 16:16

And a a bit of strength and stability training, so you can do all those things in old age that we talked about, uh, you're not at at risk of falling.

Lily 16:25

So strength and stability training, would that literally just be kind of basic task? He's not talking about going into the gym and doing anything crazy, just the basics to build up.

Chris 16:35

You can do if you're still relatively healthy, can do some kind of strength and conditioning work with weights, but otherwise it can be bodyweight exercises, like you know, just squatting at the kitchen counter while you're making a a cup of tea, some kind of light exercises, but it's because as we get older we lose muscle mass, it's trying to maintain that to kind of fight that decline.

Lily 16:58

And then I guess d does he say anything about um, you know, the family history side of things, because I feel like surely some of it is just luck as to whether you get cancer or dementia or something, if that's in your in your lineage.

Chris 17:12

That is what you would think. But he's shown even if your genes are against you to some extent, there are things you can do to reduce the risk pretty dramatically. And if you're aware of this in your twenties or thirties, or even forties and fifties, it's that compounding effect that works in your favor. So whether you're uh Gen X or Gen Z, if you start doing the right things now for a decade, or in your case, several decades, you can massively reduce the risk that you develop any of those serious diseases and you'll be able to stay fit and active well into old age.

Lily 17:46

So if we go through his steps, if we start off with nutrition, I'm guessing he says the main thing for that would be to not eat an overprocessed diet, fried foods, junk, all that kind of stuff.

Chris 17:58

Pretty much, yeah. Our modern diet makes it too easy to be what he calls overnourished. And he doesn't just mean a polite word for fat, he means it's too easy to get all the nutrients we need, and we're not burning off those excess calories, and that's what starts to cause problems with glucose and insulin and the metabolic problems. And the biggest deficiency that most of us have is protein. And I know there's a huge amount of stuff about this online, everyone you know needing more protein, but that's certainly the case for older people. So all the hype is is actually true as we get older, we naturally lose muscle mass, so we need the protein to maintain it. But did you also know your brain needs protein to make new neural connections? So if you want to keep your brain healthy, eat more protein for that too.

Lily 18:50

See, this is quite a good reminder for me because I know as a vegetarian I have to make a real effort to get protein in, and I know that in recent months, unfortunately, rather than uh weeks or days, I've not been doing that. So this is a good a good reminder. I remember one time I got a blood test done for some medication that was going on or something, and it actually came back saying that I was malnourished because this was a period where I was this is when I was working at Greg's and I was only eating.

Chris 19:18

How could you be malnourished working at the end?

Lily 19:20

Well, I was only eating um vegetable bakes. Veggie sausage rolls, vegetable big vegetable bakes and empire biscuits. So then I but a bit I shifted into gear a bit and started eating a bit more protein. I think this is another call to shift into gear. So, anyways, I'll make a note to myself to go and eat some.

Chris 19:37

More protein for your brain as well as your mind.

Lily 19:39

From my brain, from my neural connections. And then what about exercise? Is that also just you know, recommend 10k steps, recommended how many classes a week? Like what's he saying about that?

Chris 19:49

Nothing is specific around that, but the evidence for how much of a positive effect exercise has is amazing. He calls it the most powerful longevity drug. So just doing a bit of exercise has so many benefits for reducing our risk of heart disease and those metabolic problems and even some cancers. And it doesn't have to be the extreme stuff. He says the best kind of exercise is zone two exercise. So do you remember when we would sometimes run together, we would talk about conversational pace. Exactly. You can do a light jog or a bike ride and still hold a conversation with someone, even though you're a little bit out of breath. That's the zone we should be operating in most of the time. So walking at a brisk pace or uphill is good, swimming is good, any kind of light aerobic exercise really. And he also says a bit of strength training is good to maintain that muscle mass, but also to help with stability. So good leg strength and core strength is going to help with a lot of these things that we spoke about, like getting up out of a chair or getting up off the floor, helping you stay upright. And the one thing for stability that is really important is balance. And I know my balance is bad. Being quite tall, my centre of gravity is is quite high. So I have started standing on one leg when I'm brushing my teeth because I knew my balance wasn't good and it's really made a difference just in the last one.

Lily 21:19

Well, I was gonna say that's really funny because I didn't know you were doing that, but I also like to stand on one leg. I didn't know it would be something like I'm not doing it because I thought, oh, this will be beneficial when I'm 80. But sometimes if I'm at work, like if I'm looking for something on the tail, I stand on one leg or like have a bit of a stretch. So I'll keep doing that. I think the issue is I need to switch legs because I feel like I'm gonna get really good at balancing on one tip and then before.

Chris 21:42

I do one leg in the morning and one leg when I brush my teeth.

Lily 21:45

Yeah, I'm gonna add that into my routine. There we go.

Chris 21:47

Yeah, yeah. And your teeth will get cleaner because you'll try to stand on one leg for for two minutes. Yeah.

Lily 21:53

There we go.

Chris 21:54

The other good test of balance, and I was amazed when I first attempted this that he Recommends is stand with one foot in front of the other with your eyes closed. And if you can manage 10 seconds, you're doing well. Now you would think with both feet on the ground and just one foot in front of the other, kind of like how a tightrope walker would be.

Lily 22:17

Yeah, like the test they give you in the states.

Chris 22:20

Like the drunk test, yeah. Well, there you're sort of walking along a line. But this is just standing, like with the toes of one foot against the heel of another, and I had to put my arms out just to maintain my balance with my eyes open. As soon as I close my eyes, I was so you've got to be careful why what's either side of you, because I was ready to go. I can now do 10 seconds with my eyes closed. So I'm so give give that a try. It's much harder than you think.

Lily 22:48

I think as well, it's like so if you brush your teeth with your non-dominant hand, that's supposed to be a little fun, everyday way to fight off dementia, as well as I think we spoke about this in another episode, going on a walk without listening to any music or any podcasts or anything. So if we add in all of these things into our daily routines, our component is gonna go crazy and it's gonna be so balancing.

Chris 23:13

Yeah, and they are just little things you can you can add in.

Lily 23:16

And then for what can we add over sleeping?

Chris 23:19

So it's another really important factor. So, like we discussed last time, good sleep is really important for the brain's cleaning cycle to help reduce the risk of dementia. But he also talks about how disrupted sleep can affect your body's ability to process blood sugar the next day because of the stress hormones like cortisol that it leaves in your system. So with you working weird hours and later, whenever you if you have any children, you're gonna have disrupted sleep when they're young babies and then you know, are older still going through menopause, you really need to pay attention to trying to get good sleep.

Lily 23:57

And then for emotional health, I imagine that's stress and friendships, the stuff we were talking about earlier on. Does he just say to manage stress the best you can?

Chris 24:08

Yeah, or all of these important for living a healthy life. So, yet again, the topic of social media comes up and the damage that can do to our well-being and feeling inadequate, as well as prolonged use in the evenings not being good for sleep. It's all kind of interconnected. And the biggest thing I took from the book is that Gen X might be tempted to say, it's too late for me to make any changes, and Gen Z might say, I've got loads of time, I don't need to worry about this now. Yeah. And actually we'd both be wrong. If you just start doing some of this stuff, it doesn't matter what age you are, you can start to make an impact on what kind of old person you'll become.

Lily 24:47

Yeah, definitely. And it's never too late to start, and it's also probably never too early to start. And I think it'll be really interesting to see what kind of issues or you know, what issues we see more of in Gen Z as well as we we reach older age with what you're saying about social media and things. I think I read somewhere that we are already seeing increased diagnosis of early onset dementia. Really? Because of people's brain activity essentially like shutting off linked to to phone news. So I do worry a little bit for my generation when we get to that age because we have been plugged in from like day one.

Chris 25:28

Yeah, and we don't know what the long-term effect of that will be, or we're just starting to discover it now.

Lily 25:33

I mean, I've been on um my phone a bit less just because I've been doing more work and obviously I've had less time to sit and look at a screen, but I think I'm gonna try and keep that going because I have been noticing I feel a lot less like brain foggy. So if that's me after like a week of not being on my phone, if you were doing a bit more of a cleanse by the time you get to older age, your interest is gonna be built up well on that. So I guess it all just comes down to do you want to make these small decisions that are gonna leave you feeling decrepit, always at the doctors with loads of health issues, you know. If you chose to lie in bed, eat crap, scroll on your phone, or do you want to be the healthy and active older person who's continuing to enjoy life and make the most out of their final years?

Chris 26:20

Absolutely. And it's not impossible to imagine that you could have a 60-year career ahead of you. So 24 to 84, and it you have to stay healthy up to the age grandma is now to be able to continue to work, to afford to retire for 15 years, which would get you to about a hundred. Um, you can't just rely on medical advances to keep you going.

Lily 26:47

Yeah, I'm starting to think this isn't just about the fancy Instagram fitness studios and kill juice and doing yoga, and it's maybe more about giving myself the best chance of living a long, healthy, meaningful life. The choices I need to make today to make that possible, starting off with an omelet after this to get my protein on.

Chris 27:07

More routine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lily 27:09

Getting off my phone. I always say that. That's the main thing for me as well that I want to focus on is always getting off the phone.

Chris 27:16

Just kind of small changes, these these little habits start to mount up. And seeing what's happening to grandmas definitely made me pause and think about decisions today, and you know, they'll affect um the things that I'll need to live with in future.

Lily 27:30

They'll affect the things that I'll need to live with. So good keep making good decisions.

Chris 27:35

To have some of the perspective we have now in advance of when I've got it, so you've got more time to work on this stuff and less likely to need to care for me and mum when when re reach that point.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Yeah. Thank you for that.

Chris 27:51

So apart from eating more omelets and maybe not being on your phone so much, what else do you think you might do differently as a result?

Lily 27:59

I think the sleep thing isn't something that's massively in my control just now, because like you say, I work weird shift patterns and then also you know, social life, things like that. But that's something that in the future I would really like to my sleep hygiene and things like that could be a lot better because for our family in particular, keeping the neurological side of our health good, yeah, that would be helpful. As you can tell, maybe from some of the stuff I've been saying, I'm actually really tired today because I feel like I've just been yapping at certain points. But that's evidence that when you don't get good sleep, your brain starts getting a bit fluffy, and I don't want to build the fluff in my brain up until I'm 80, because then I'll be in a really, really bad way.

Chris 28:48

No, you don't want it there permanently.

Lily 28:50

So that's something I'd like to work on when I'm hopefully not doing crazy shifts one day.

Chris 28:56

Cool. Yeah, for me, I'm gonna continue doing some of these healthier habits that I've started.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Yeah, yeah.

Chris 29:03

The balanced stuff, things that I've I've started doing or or restarted, um, like swimming more. I've started that a couple of months ago. And if I ever find it too much of a chore or my consistency starts slipping, I'm gonna remind myself that my future self will thank me.

Lily 29:20

Yeah, definitely.

Chris 29:21

Yeah, yeah.

Lily 29:22

I think it seems like a tour now, but it'll seem like more of a tour when you need the toilet and then you can't get yourself up and you're in a yeah, tricky situation.

Chris 29:30

You're stuck. Yeah. So it's your developers, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And want to be able to stay healthy for as long as possible.

Lily 29:38

Me too.

Chris 29:40

If you found this discussion interesting, but you haven't listened to our episodes on wellness or sleep, you might want to go back and have a listen to those because it all ties together. If you found this conversation interesting, you might want to go back and have a listen to our episodes on wellness and sleep if you haven't heard those already, because this all ties together. And if you are finding the conversation useful, do leave us a rating or a review because that helps the podcast to grow. Uh next episode is going to be a little bit different because it's our first anniversary. So we are revisiting the Gen XZ quiz that was one of our launch episodes with some additional special guests in the team and some new questions on how much does Gen Z know about Gen X and how much does Gen X know about Gen Z. And Gen X needs to level the score, so it's a grudge match, definitely. So we'll see you for that one in two weeks' time.

Lily 30:38

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Gen X Z Exchange.